Why many cis-het men hate astrology. Or: Wouldn't you rather be in a box shaped by the stars?
A conversation about astrology: part two
Hi, and welcome back to our conversation about astrology. If you missed the first part, you can catch up here. In this second part, Lena and I talked about why many cis-het men hate astrology so much (cue “PsEUdo-SCieNCe!”), we look at the relationship between feminism and astrology, and Lena offers a brilliant analogy to football. Enjoy!
Lena Rutkowski is a Polish-Australian writer based in Copenhagen. You can find her work here and you should also follow her on Instagram.
From what we’ve just talked about, it sounds like astrology could be considered as a spiritual practice, or even a religion replacement for some people? As in believing that there is a higher power governing your life.
Sure, it could be a religion replacement for a some people, kind of related to spirituality. But then there’s also a lot of people who enjoy the almost psychological aspect of it, you know, learning about personality types and traits.
The latter is where you would see yourself?
Yes, definitely. I think it's really nice that astrology sees all personality types as equally valuable, just different. There's no hierarchy in astrology. Comparable to introverts and extroverts – they have different qualities and they're equally valuable. And that core premise of astrology runs contrary to how we experience the world today, where gender, race and class still create this unfair hierarchy, and white cis-het man is considered the “default” identity.
So is that one of the reasons why astrology appeals particularly to women? That we get to break out of this hierarchy?
Maybe – perhaps as women, we’re used to having our lives valued as lesser than men’s, so it’s appealing to have a set of ideas that create twelve equal categories / personalities.
A lot of men will argue that astrology puts people “in boxes” – but then again, everyone except white heterosexual men are already used to being put into a box, and wouldn’t you be rather be in a box shaped by the stars, that’s just as valuable as the next?
Very interesting point. Can you expand on why you think so many men are not just uninterested in astrology, but seem to actively hate it?
I think a lot of men are super attached to this idea that they are very rational. Like, they associate core masculine traits with rationality and logic. I suppose astrology doesn’t make sense to them on a rational level, but where I’ve experienced that men get really angry is when they tell me astrology is silly and find that I don’t care about their opinion.
It's this male tendency of intellectually dominating women, and I think astrology really agitates their need to tell us that our “feminine” interests are stupid – even though astrology isn’t actually feminine or masculine.
I just listened to an interview with an astrologer and she also mentioned how so many men feel the need to tell her that she’s “promoting pseudo-science”. And she said, “actually, nobody ever claimed astrology was a science. You're the only one saying that”.
Oh yeah, I love when they bring up the “pseudo-science” argument. Men like to see themselves as representing enlightenment and science. I think it's incredibly patronising, as if I ever thought it was a science? As if I don’t have the capacity to tell the difference? It’s a narrative, I know what I’m doing, back off.
It's part of the tradition of ridiculing everything women or girls like – horses, pink, rom coms …
What I find so funny and so infuriating about this whole issue is that when you compare astrology to the cultural narratives we build around sports. Sports games are a narrative. Like when you watch a football game, it’s been decided that a team of 11 players represents Spain, and a team of 11 players represents England. The same way a collection of stars in the sky represents a personality.
And when these players kick a ball at each other and England scores more goals than Spain, we then believe this says something about England as a country and that says something about me and you as a follower of that team ... people will sob when their team loses as it’s so closely connected to their identity. Even though you don’t know these players and their ability to kick a ball on a given day. I mean that's a really silly narrative. It has nothing to do with rationality. But people emotionally connect with it.
But if women look at the sky and talk about personality types, we are suddenly crazy. There’s no way we could also just be having fun or emotionally connecting with an idea.
This is an excellent analogy, thank you.
And at the end of the day, I think a lot of men see making fun of astrology as negging. In my experience men have used it to try to spark up some ‘flirty’ debate with me and prove how clever they are, maybe put me intellectually in my place a bit to elevate themselves? They definitely seemed to enjoy telling me something I found interesting was ludicrous and trivial. I always found those conversations so boring. Men negging me about astrology is truly the most boring conversation, and I’ve had it a million times. Also, I'm not going to change my interest in anything, just because a man thinks it’s stupid. I just don’t care.
Astrology has become incredibly popular on social media over the past decade. How do you feel about the meme-ification of it all?
I mean, I don't like the meme-ification of anything. As soon as something becomes a T-Shirt, I'm out. I learned about astrology through a really old, beautiful book from a friend's mum, and I'm not into this oversimplified version that's being fed to us through Instagram. It’s now part of the millennial women aesthetic and it often intersects with Instagram wellness and the girlboss feminism.
How so?
Well first, for example manifestation, which is a big part of Instagram wellness culture. Manifestation doesn’t factor in privilege at all. I mean, when you're a white, middle-class woman, did you really manifest something or is it just your privilege playing out for you? Are you just more deserving, or naturally “better” at manifesting than people who live in poverty, for example?
I think it's really important to separate astrology from the idea of manifestation, because otherwise it would mean that the universe structurally favours white men and women. Looking at it that way it makes sense that the rise of Instagram astrology in the 2010s coincided with the rise of girlboss feminism.
Ok, last topic: Did you ever feel like your interest in astrology clashed with your feminism? Considering that feminism can be a rather intellectual, rational, and well, worldly cause.
I’d disagree with that – feminism for me is very emotional, like I'm burning with anger a lot of the time! And it is emotional to experience sexism and misogyny on a daily basis. But you're right in the sense that as a woman you have to be very careful to frame your feminism as a rational and logical issue.
Because you don't want to be labelled as hysterical.
Exactly. It's an oppression tactic to label women as hysterical and to discredit anyone displaying emotions (except for male anger) as unstable and untrustworthy. But I am emotional about feminism, I am emotional about inequality. And in regards to astrology, I do think it’s a feminist act to tell a man, who says astrology is stupid, to fuck off.
Thank you, Lena.
If you want to dive deeper into this topic, here’s the podcast-interview I refered to and here’s a good read about feminism and astrology.
🌍 In the past week, I have fallen into the rabbit hole of astro cartography (I love maps!), and am utterly fascinated. Apparently, my current location has a very “challenging” energy (no shit) and I would be happiest in northern Chad or smack in the middle of the South Pacific (Which one will I choose? Will I build a raft to live in the sea? Stay tuned).
Make of this what you want, I just think it’s another great example of how you can have fun with astrology – and how a confirmation bias can be a valuable learning tool. You can create your own map here and I found this a light-hearted explainer.
That’s all for today, I hope you enjoyed our conversation. In the next free post, I’ll be back with plenty of pop culture pleasures for you. And if you want to get the full Verve-Letter-Experience (which includes two extra personal essays per month), make use of my 15% discount on a yearly subscription. Offer is valid until June 6th.
Until then,
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